Klerosboard Subscriptions

General
#1

Hey Community!

I’m writing this post to let you know to all of you that since today, klerosboard.com has a subscription mechanism to reveal some features. Some time ago I’ve made a small twitter poll asking if the community think that this could work and received a lot of good feedback.

The hole idea behind this is to create a UBI sink mechanism where most of the donations are used to burn some $UBI using ubiburner. To do that, I’ve deployed a SC which using the donate function you can send some eth to the SC and most of that ETH it’s forwarded to the SC of Ubiburner. I’ve said most of that ETH because a % it’s kept in the SC as a maintenance fee where the maintainer (myself) can withdaw it. To make it more community based, the ownership of the SC has been transferred to the Kleros Governor, so I can’t made any decision on that SC, just the Kleros Community with they voting power can make proposal and changes. The SC it’s quite simple and has a few parameters to change:

  • Monthly ETH needed (setted at 0.2 ETH per month)
  • Maintainer address
  • Maintenance Fee (it’s in 10% and can be changed but by code it’s limited to 50%).

The idea and how it’s implemented it’s this:
To reveal some hidden features in klerosboard, the community has to reach some monthly donation goal (the SC value for monthly eth). If that amount it’s reached, in the next month the features will be revealed to all the visitors of the site. To incentivize users to donate and don’t wait to other do for you, if your wallet has donated 1/20 of the monthly goal in the past 365 days, that hidden features will be revealed for you. Of course, you need to be logged in with your wallet to see that features. That 1/20 it’s hardcoded in the website frontend, I compromised my self to not change that value, if I do, please make a forum proposal to remove myself as maintainer of the site in the SC to block me to withdraw the maintenance fees.

TL;DR: If you donate 0.2 / 20 = 0.001 ETH (~30 usd) to the cause, you will be able to see all the klerosboard site for a year, doesn’t sound bad, don’t?

What are the hidden features?

  • Jurors wallets: You will be able to see the jurors vote, but not who has voted
  • Other jurors profile: You will be able to see only the general metrics of that juror, but not their stakes or votes. You will be always available to see you own juror profile as was until today.
  • Jurors wallet from courts: You will be able to see the amount staked by some address, but not to identify that address.
  • Jurors Leader board (I’m working on a jurors leader board to rank jurors according to amount of votes, performance, etc, and that will be hidden too).

Hope the community join me to support the UBI and Klerosboard and start donate to the cause.

3 Likes
#2

Hi Santiago,

First of all, let me say I really appreciate your work on klerosboard which is a great tool for the Kleros community. I especially appreciate its simplicity, clarity, and lack of unnecessary javascript.

However I strongly disagree with the approach you’re taking here on several levels.

Most importantly, I think it is fundamentally self-contradictory. You are trading free access to information for all for a very small amount of free money for all. This is a terrible tradeoff. You ask people to pay for access to information/knowledge in order to redistribute that money to the poor (UBI recipients). However, the 0.001 ETH required, while a negligible amount for the rich, is a large amount for the poor. On the other hand, that information is of great value to everyone since it can among other things be used to track bad behavior among jurors. To top things off, that 0.2 ETH per month will have barely any effect at all on the price of UBI since there are already 10k UBI recipients which makes this less than 10 cents per month per PoH profile. But you might say: what if all other services start doing the same thing? It would all add up! This line of reasoning however only highlights all the more how unwelcome of an idea this should (and would) be. Consider for instance if Wikipedia were to do the same too. I do not think I need to expand on the consequences of that.

A more marginal but still important point is that this has a negative effect on user privacy since one is now required to be logged in using the same account every time one wishes to use the service to its full extent unless one wishes to pay 30$ for every session.

So although I realize you have put in quite some work into this new feature already, I would nonetheless ask you to reconsider.

If you would still prefer some funding for your development efforts and server costs, I think a much better way would be to secure it through the Kleros DAO or the Kleros Cooperative.

1 Like
#3

Hi Mizu,

Thank you for taking the time to reply in this forum and such elaborated response. Besides I understand your point, I do not agree with it. ~30 usd / year it’s a low value for rich people as you have said, but for those who can’t afford that it’s the monthly value that the community as a hole has to reach. Klerosboard has ~200 unique visitors per day, 3k~ unique visitors per month, so I don’t think it’s hard to find 20 users who can collaborate to UBI and revealing the features for the users that could not afford it.

For your privacy concerns, the logging it’s like in any other dapp that you login, you have to just connect your metamask account. There is nothing else in that logging function so I don’t see your point. You can create a wallet and use it only in klerosboard if you have some security concerns.

Take note that most of the donations goes to Ubiburner, this is not a way to secure my developing efforts, besides that if Kleros scale i would have to scale the server and pay more for the hosting service, but this is not the principal intention of this modifications. If you think that the 10% it’s much for maintenance, feel free to make a proposal to change that value in this forum so the Kleros Governor can make the transaction. If you think that the Kleros DAO/Coop have to pay that, make the proposal, but I don’t think that the DAO/Coop have to do that.

For the record, the Coop gave me a bounty for the development of klerosboard a year ago, and I really appreciate that initiative of them but as I said before, this goes beyond of a maintenance fee or a way to earn some money due to the time that I spent in the development and maintenance of the site, it’s focused on UBI.

As I’ve said you in the telegram group, all the site it’s in github, feel free to create a new version and improve all the information that klerosboard has. Most of the backend it’s in a subgraph, so you would not have issues to query the data. For example, court.kleros.io use that subgraph to show the APY in the courts.

1 Like
#4

Regarding privacy, the problem is that all my activity on klerosboard would be linked to a single account. And since I’m likely to check my own cases and profiles more frequently than others, the website operator could more easily link my juror address to my browsing behaviour on klerosboard. Not a huge deal but still, unnecessary. Now I’m not even completely against paying to access a website. If it were done with lightning micropayments on a per-page or per-session basis, and the price was not made excessive in order to subsidize UBI, I’d be totally okay with that. Unfortunately, the technology for that is not anywhere near ready. You’d need a browser plugin at least and I don’t know of anything of the sort.

And I have no problem at all with you making money from the website. On the contrary, I think you deserve it. I’m glad to hear you got a bounty at least.

I still disagree with these hidden features, but the nice thing about open source software is it gives everyone choice. I’ll try to run the server myself and will post a link to it on here and on telegram once it’s ready.

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#5

The site doesn’t store any metric related to the wallets logged in neither their behavior inside the site.

The unique visitors metrics that I’ve are the provided by the free plan of cloudfare (which are quite limited to # of visitors and not so much).

I’ve enabled the “hidden features” until February to have one month to collect the ETHs to be donated, because if not all January will be hidden.

1 Like