Valuable discussion / suggesions / actionable points from various Telegram chats

Some really good suggestions…

Kleros Complaints chat:

Kleros Trading chat:

Join link:

Kleros Community run Trading group. Telegram: Join Group Chat

Highlights from Telegram

Allegedly there is a concern core team controlling a large chunk of PNK?

I do not repeat rumours. I fully support transparency. Better for the brand, trust, economy.

Transparency report for $PNK hold by the Kleros Coop and the core team

(not creating a dedicated forum thread as the transparency is already mentioned above)

Vitalik’s blog: DAOs are not corporations: where decentralization in autonomous organizations matters

I represent Kleros community and I would love to know what is the situation, asking directly at the source.

  • Transparency reports are common.
  • Declaration of interests are common.

Core value proposition of Kleros is decentralised community of jurors. Trust as currency, trust as building block, trust as necessary starting point.

The list of potential outcomes:

  • all clear
  • some minor issues but generally OK
  • mistakes were made - write a post-mortem and create an internal policy how to handle it in the future
  • ignoring and sweeping under a carpet - unlikely to succeed in the long run, internet remembers, “bullshit asymmetry principle


I initiated message on the Forum and in the meanwhile an answer appeared on Telegram:

TLDR: encouraging to stake more PNK to prevent a serious attacker

I also saw that the amount staked were quite low in % of the circulating PNK, and that if we have an serious attacker, and Avraham is a serious attacker, he obviously an enemy of defi projects, but in some way I admire his holistic (attacking on multiple fronts and playing with a of governance, loans, insurances, botnets, etc) abilities, that we should work on having a higher staking rate.
As this was a short term threat, I just encouraged people to stake (talked to a few people, make some Twitter posts encouraging staking).

Reasonable explanation.

Not taking any action and allowing this dude to defraud Kleros would have been much worse. What would be even better: transparency report, post-mortem, explaining the situation and what steps were taken.

I trust Clement more than the dude sitting in custody, awaiting IRL trial: | SEC Charges Avraham Eisenberg with Manipulating Mango Markets’ “Governance Token” to Steal $116 Million of Crypto Assets

Eisenberg FUD campaign: The Kleros experiment has failed - by Avraham Eisenberg

EDIT / UPDATE: digging deeper, some results from Google for “Mizu case 1170”

The sheer complexity of the dispute is making your ears ring. Cold sweat runs through your forehead. You feel dizzy, think about your bag, and weigh your options.

ATTACK or counter-ATTACK?

At this point I believe there is loads of evidence supporting the thesis of Kleros core team member increasing the stake in the technical court.

It does not pass my bullshit filter the possibility of it happening spontaneously. There has to be some explanation and Eisenberg sounds like a reasonable excuse.


  • WTF no transparency
  • WTF not making it a headline bullish event
  • WTF not using it to establish a policy about internal dealing

Due to a large number of WTF above - an explanation from someone more knowledgeable than me required - ideally the core team and people personally engaged in this case.

I’m working on a project ( that is integrating with Kleros, shared the link with someone, received some feedback:

also, what is your take on Kleros hack that happened? Where basically a whale outvoted everyone else so he did not lose funds in a dispute.
I imagine this might be somewhat problematic for your platform it if really gains adoption. how do you plan to counter-act such events, where there might be companies involved worth billion of dollars (trying to influence the results)?

Internet remembers.

But people are able to understand, forgive, receive honest genuine authentic explaination…


Team having more tokens than the amount staked in general court, meaning they can collude on any case they want; team refusing to disclose personal wallets


“Internet remembers”